Can Non-Conformances Be Discussed or Challenged with an Auditor?

[Jasper Dolton]

If you disagree with a non-conformance (NC) finding during a BRCGS audit, can you discuss or challenge it with the auditor?

 

[Marzena STC & QTC]

Yes, you can definitely discuss or challenge a non-conformance (NC) finding with the auditor during or after the BRCGS audit. It’s a good idea to have a conversation to explain your side or provide more evidence.

 

[Cathy Gladwin]

Yes please! Auditees have often pointed out a particular view or interpretation to me (as the auditor) which I hadn't thought about before and it has changed my mind about a possible NC. No auditor really wants to raise a stupid non-conformity, so have those professional and constructive discussions.

 

[Marzena STC & QTC]

Yes please! Auditees have often pointed out a particular view or interpretation to me (as the auditor) which I hadn't thought about before and it has changed my mind about a possible NC. No auditor really wants to raise a stupid non-conformity, so have those professional and constructive discussions.

Yes, @Cathy Gladwin I totally agree with that! There have been some times when I’ve looked at a situation one way and thought the only solution was raising an NCR. But after talking it through with the auditee, they’ve explained things in more detail, and suddenly, I’ve had a moment of realisation: "Oh, hang on, I didn’t think of it like that!"

 

[Shaun]

Just to comment from a certification body point of view.

If you disagree with a non-conformance you should always talk it through with your auditor. No auditor likes to get things wrong and they will always be happy to have a discussion with you. Even if the auditor disagrees and still elects to raise it, they are still happy and glad to have the discussion.

You do need to draw a line in the sand and at some point accept it, but accepting it doesn't mean you still have to agree. You can then appeal it directly with the certification body who will take a view which is independent from the auditor. Even if the appeal is unsuccessful you can still appeal directly to BRCGS too.

Just like auditors not wanting to raise silly non-conformances, neither do certification bodies want to provide reports with silly non-conformances. Even if you don't appeal, if the certification decision is robust you may find the non-conformance was removed anyway (you will be notified of this). Although it is quite rare, I have just completely dropped non-conformances which I judged to be raised incorrectly even though the site didn't appeal.

 

[Cathy Gladwin]

Just to comment from a certification body point of view.

If you disagree with a non-conformance you should always talk it through with your auditor. No auditor likes to get things wrong and they will always be happy to have a discussion with you. Even if the auditor disagrees and still elects to raise it, they are still happy and glad to have the discussion.

You do need to draw a line in the sand and at some point accept it, but accepting it doesn't mean you still have to agree. You can then appeal it directly with the certification body who will take a view which is independent from the auditor. Even if the appeal is unsuccessful you can still appeal directly to BRCGS too.

Just like auditors not wanting to raise silly non-conformances, neither do certification bodies want to provide reports with silly non-conformances. Even if you don't appeal, if the certification decision is robust you may find the non-conformance was removed anyway (you will be notified of this). Although it is quite rare, I have just completely dropped non-conformances which I judged to be raised incorrectly even though the site didn't appeal.

That's a very well balanced view you've given us there Shaun, sharing the certification body process. Much appreciated! That technical review process that BRCGS makes part of the certification process makes good sense doesn't it. They want to protect their reputation too and hence the independent review process as well as that formal appeal process that the site can use. Back to your first statement though, "... talk it through with your auditor." Indeed! We can avoid very long discussion after the audit, trying to find out the facts and who said what... if a sensible chat with the auditor had just taken place, at the time the issue was first raised.

Last comment I promise I think that auditors need reminding (includes me!), to "listen!". Hear with the auditee is saying. We're so focussed on getting the job done and we're so rushed, that we sometimes don't actually "hear" what they're saying. Listening is as much part of communication as talking is.